Being labelled a 'female composer' - PhD Research Interview

Nicholas Ong (NO): Do you identify as a woman composer? 

Georgia Barnes (GB): Yes, I do. 

NO: What do you associate with the label ‘woman composer’? 

GB: I just associate it with being a composer who writes music as a woman. 

NO: Are there contexts in which you feel that it’s not that simple? Do you feel that there may be instances where someone may see that label as an indication of something more than simply a woman who writes music? 

GB: I think there are negative connotations to the term when used by the wrong people and organisations. I don’t think the use of the label is without social constraints. I don’t think it exists as an entirely neutral entity. 

NO: What sort of organisations are these and how is it used by them to connote negative aspects of women who write music? 

GB: I don’t think it is appropriate for an organisation like the Wagner Society to use the label to market their work because of the stereotypes around the society – i.e., being very male-dominated and that centres male composers. However, there are a lot of contemporary arts organisations like Herstory which I have no problems with should they use the label. 

NO: So, it’s okay if it’s used by an activist organisation or used in an activist way? 

GB: Exactly. 

NO: What do you think are the implications of the use of the label by a neutral organisation, for example? 

GB: I think it projects a sense of otherness amongst women and the composition community. I feel the same about the use of the BAME label. It makes it seem like the default composer is non-woman or non-BAME, so it can potentially perpetuate stereotypes. However, I personally would go to concerts which exclusively feature women composers because I want to support the work of women composers. It still depends on the composers, but I’m generally supportive of programming that incorporates positive discrimination like that. Generally, though, the label perpetuates a sense of otherness. 

NO: What are the stereotypes that are perpetuated with the use of labels like ‘women composers’? 

GB: It perpetuates the idea that a composer is an old white man who is classically trained in the Western art tradition. I also think it makes composition, and music generally, seem like an elite form of art because it feels it’s an activity engaged in by an old boys club. Having the label ‘woman composer’ can contribute to that because of its intrinsic definition of something else. 

NO: Does the label perpetuate stereotypes of women who compose? 

GB: Based on my experience with projects that embrace the label – normally because of things like International Women’s Day or led by an organisation that promotes the work of women composers – there’s generally an activist aspect to its use. Because I’m labelled as a woman composer, there’s an underlying expectation that all of the music that I write should promote the women’s cause or touch on women’s themes. That’s the issue with identity politics in general; as long as there are aspects of your identity that is not the majority in that category, you are somehow expected to promote or represent your ‘otherness’ alongside your own personal identity. 

NO: Do you feel like there’s an idea of what women’s music sounds like? When the label is used, do you think it implies a certain musical quality? 

GB: No, but it does depend on many things. My experience is very London-centric. In my training in a conservatoire, I was engaged with professors who were very progressive and innovative in their thinking. I don’t think there’s a particular style in which women write music, but that’s because my experience in composition has been very practical and not overly academic. 

I do find that there are stereotypes to the kind of music that women write (like parlour music), especially if you look into music history. But I don’t think that’s the case anymore. If people understand the historical context around that, then they would understand that it is not something that is inherently female. 

NO: Have you ever been explicitly referred to as a woman composer? If yes, how did that make you feel? 

GB: Yes. I was involved in a project called ‘Lost and Found’ with the Royal Opera House for International Women’s Day in 2022. The label was used all over the media and it was very interesting because I think it made people want to come to the performances. So, if there’s an element of activism to it and what I do contributes to that, then I have no issues with being labelled a woman composer. 

If there wasn’t an underlying activism to my work then I would find it irritating if the label is used on me. I’ve definitely had this with the BAME label where they’ve just used it on me because it makes them look better on paper (to have commissioned a young BAME composer). There are also issues with using the word ‘young’. 

NO: Throughout your training as a composer, has this label been useful at all? 

GB: I think when I first entered the conservatoire, I saw myself just as a composer who was perhaps not as accomplished as my peers (who were predominantly male). I had a sense of imposter syndrome, not only because of my gender, and that the work of my male colleagues was better. A lot of male composers have experience in the English choral tradition which women, including myself, don’t necessarily have. It results in me feeling like music doesn’t come as naturally to me as compared to them. Such experiences make it easier for them to write music. 

I realised that the sense of otherness that I was feeling from my cohort wasn’t because I was actually inferior but because I didn’t have the same experience as them. That made it into more of a gender thing for me. And to learn that there were people who were actively promoting the work of women composers actually made me feel better about my sense of otherness, knowing that there were others who felt the same way. I learnt that there were gender biases in music programming. 

NO: When you entered the conservatoire, did you conceive the vocation of a composer to be a gendered one? 

GB: No, I didn’t. Before I started at the conservatoire, I wasn’t based in London and did not know that many composers – I had never met a working composer before then. The more time I spent at the conservatoire, the more I realised the need for the promotion of works by women composers. 

Before I entered the conservatoire, I didn’t see gender as an issue. Even though I grew up listening to Bach, Stephen Sondheim, etc., I never felt like I couldn’t become a composer because of my gender. I suppose I didn’t realise that most, if not all, of the music I listened to were written by old white men of a certain background. I guess I wasn’t alerted of the injustice of it all when I was younger. It also had to do with age and maturity, but when I entered the conservatoire, I began to question why there weren’t any women on our syllabi. 

I saw it to be similar to the RAF – very male-dominated. If I were to join the RAF, it’s because I wanted to take part in the military. I would’ve been an exception, but I never thought to question why I was the exception. 

Before conservatoire, I wrote music without thinking about the music industry. When I started getting commissions as a conservatoire student, I realised that a lot of the organisations who commissioned me were keen because I was a ‘other’. It’s good in a way because it alerted me to the biases and encouraged me to put my music out there more. 

NO: How would you feel if you were acknowledged as a woman composer for a specific achievement, though not as the first woman? 

GB: Honestly, I don’t think I would mind it. I might experience some level of imposter syndrome because I might feel like I won this award because I am a woman rather than my own compositional achievements. However, I don’t believe in blind auditioning or listening to music blind. I think my identity is just as much a part of my composition as any other element of the music. I think you can say that about many other composers, including Wagner. I also do think that for everything to be equal, there should be some level of positive discrimination. 

If I were to win an award for my music and my identity, I would gladly take it because the reality is that there would’ve been thousands who were good enough, which includes me. It’s art anyway, so who can really say whose work is better than someone else’s? If I won an award and it was shared that I am a woman composer, I’d embrace that because, yes, I am a woman, that’s part of my identity. There might some positive discrimination but that’s what we need to level out the playing field. 

NO: It sounds like for you, an ideal situation would be for people to learn about your music before listening to it. What are some of the information you’d like people to know before listening to your music? 

GB: I would like people to know that I’m a woman and that a lot of my music is inspired by female experiences. I’m a composer-performer as well so it can be quite theatrical with lots of visual elements. My gender and appearance on stage does contribute to the performance. Ideally, people would read my biography before listening to my music. 

Composition isn’t just an mp3 file nowadays. There are so many composers whose identity is a huge part of their work. Errollyn Wallen, for example, incorporates a lot of African rhythms in her work, and she wouldn’t do that unless people knew about her background and identity because otherwise it would be wrong and offensive. A lot of women composers do want to write about female experiences. 

NO: Is it fair to say that you are not against reading gender in music? 

GB: Yea. Every time you listen to a piece by a man, you’re listening to the male experience. If it’s by a 20-year-old man, it’s about a 20-year male experience. So many themes on women have not been represented on stage, and it can never be accurately represented by men, particularly in opera. There are so many misogynistic stories in opera, so I have no problem with gendering music because it helps to fill this gap. 

NO: Do you think it’s possible for someone to write about the experience of someone else? 

GB: No. I don’t think it’s possible. If I were to go to a tribal community who have never heard Western art music and try to imitate their music, it would always turn out as pastiche and show Western influence, maybe even influences that I’m not aware of. It would always be colonisation in that sense. A man can never write about the experiences of women. All of our music shows this collective experience as women. I do think male music is different to female music.